In the final chapter of our conversation with Kehua Li (Lico), discussions primarily evolved around the body and the mind of a dancer.
Please refer to the following links for the first and second chapter of our conversation respectively.
Body Consciousness 身体意识
Axel Wang：作为最后一个章节的开始，想和Lico你聊聊“重复”这件事。作为舞者或者编舞家，表演需要重复，一天好几场，连着好几天，更不要说全国甚至全世界的巡演，对参与者的身体跟心理要求其实都极高。无论是碧娜·鲍许 (Pina Bausch)，或者是陶身体剧场，他们的表演中都有很多重复。陶身体创始人之一的陶冶，之前在采访中提到说他希望把舞蹈很枯燥的一面呈现在舞台上，他认为“重复”是舞蹈的终极意义。不知道“重复”对你个人来说有没有什么特别的意味？
For the beginning of this final chapter, Lico, I wanted to hear your thoughts on ‘repetition’. For a dancer and a choreographer, repetition is something that you can never get away with. Multiple, consecutive days of performances, let alone national or worldwide tours. Whether it’s Pina Bausch or TAO Dance Theater1, their performances involve a lot of repetitions. Tao Ye, one of the founders of the latter, mentioned in an interview that he wants to present the dull and boring aspects of dance on stage, and he believes that ‘repetition’ is the ultimate essence of dance. I’m curious, if ‘repetition’ holds any particular significance for you personally?
Kehua Li (Lico)：对于现阶段的我和我的舞蹈来说，我不认为重复有非常重要的意义。比如在练习基本功的时候，你会不停地锻炼和运用身体的某一块肌肉完成一个动作，通过千百遍的重复，可以建立以及达到某种质感。更加有帮助的，是在表面上“重复”的过程中，仍然保留着觉察性，我们并不是机器，机器的重复也意味着停止，单调机械性的重复只会让我们失去生命力。重复，也许是关于信念，关于你对一件事情肯定的程度。就好比小时候学写字，你不停地重复横竖撇捺，慢慢地养成了习惯，而每一个习惯都会在你身上留下痕迹。那么，你在“重复”时坚守着什么样的信念，从这个⻆度来说，重复非常重要。
但从另外一个角度来看，我们总是需要打破重复和惯性。那么，这样又该如何定义重复呢？就好比建立一堵新墙需要拆除旧墙一样，我认为新观念的建立始终都需要不断批判以及打破旧的观念。对于现在的我而言，我每天不断烧水、喝水、每天纠结吃什么，这也成了一种重复，但是这些重复对我的生命有什么意义吗？我说不上来…… 这是很好玩儿的一个问题，我觉得可以留一留。当我经历更多的事情后，我可能会有这个词有新的认知。
At the current stage of my life, I have to say no. Obviously when you are practising the basics, your body and mind become familiar with a specific set of movements or techniques, through repetition you develop muscle memory right, and ultimately it helps refining your techniques and optimise the performance. And during the apparent repetitive process, it’s also essential that you remain as an astute observer — you don’t just repeat, because we are not machines at the end of the day, the repetitions of machinery imply eventual stagnation or death, if the same model is applied to humans in the end we just lose all forms of vitality. Repetition might also be about notion, about the level of certainty you have towards something. Just like when you were learning to write as a child, you repeated the strokes over and over, gradually developing a habit, and each habit leaves its mark on you. So, in terms of what belief you adhere to during ‘repetition’, it is indeed crucial.
But if I stand on the other side of the argument, we always need to break free from repetition and old habits, how should we rightly define repetition in this case? It’s like tearing down an old wall in order to build a new one, to foster new ideas and concepts, not only do we have to build on the foundation but sometimes challenging or even abandoning the past is necessary. For my everyday now, I must go through numerous chores, agonising over what to eat and whatever, does this cycle of repetition hold any significance at all, I don’t know…That’s actually quite an intriguing question, I think it deserves some more thoughts and I will probably come up with better answers as I live and learn.
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AW：在上一章节中，你提到了《意识与身体》。你还很年轻，有没有什么特别的原因促使你想去做舞蹈教学这件事情呢？
In the last chapter of our interview, you briefly mentioned Consciousness and Body. You are still extremely young for an artist, any particular reason why you wanted to start teaching?
KL：国内有许多从事舞蹈行业的朋友，或是一些小型的独立舞蹈团体，可能也是疫情的关系，近两年他们会在一些小城市举办工作坊，同时会邀请当下活跃的编舞家或舞者来进行授课。
几次教学邀请下来，我意识到如果只是凭着个人兴趣去教课，许多过程会因为没有及时记录而流失。有时候在教学中讲述的东西非常有趣，很多一时兴起的奇思妙想和各种经验的分享也都十分宝贵，但下一次我可能就总结不出来了。与其说每一次都有一搭没一搭地输出，我想尝试整理教学的内容，认真地思考哪些值得分享和研究，我想找到建立起我的舞蹈理念的技术支持以及思维角度。 面对业余的学生或者专业的舞者时授课会有什么区别，他们提出的问题都对我有很好的帮助，我在寻找答案的过程中也在不停地学习，反思和发现短板。在大环境需要我去做这件事情的当下，既然做了，那就应该更好地琢磨一下。
Quite a number of my colleagues working in the industry, including some independent dance groups and such, they’ve been hosting dance workshops, and occasionally I was invited to be a guest tutor from time to time. After a while I just realised that if I simply rely on personal experience every single time, many of those creative processes may be lost due to lack of timely documentation.
Sometimes in class I would say random things, and these impromptu ideas can be extremely valuable but I might not be able to recall for the next class. And I just thought maybe I should reconsider my teaching approach, in order to be more organised, and to establish some sort of a proper curriculum not only for the students but also for myself as well, like a body of thoughts, or a system of dance philosophies, coming from a technical as well as an intellectual perspective. There are differences between teaching an amateur and a professional dancer, and the questions they raise are also extremely insightful. In the process of answering their questions, I’m also constantly learning, reflecting, and discovering my own shortcomings. Since there’s a demand, and if I’m going to do it, I might as well do my best right?
“Change is constant, and dance has taught me to approach life with an open mind…”
AW：可以谈谈舞者的年龄和身体间的关系么？
Do you mind sharing a few words on the relationship between the age and the physical aspects of a dancer?
KL：对一个舞者来说，你的青春或者是身体状态，都因人而异，我认为不该用年龄去衡量任何一位舞者。我知道不少老师跳到五十多岁都还没让他们自己停下来。当我在审视我自己的时候，我能看到很多伤痕，跟我长久以来的训练和各种经历都分不开。每一年随着我的成长，我感觉我都是在消耗我的身体，我很肯定地说我无法像三年前一样疯狂地蹦跳。这三年我增长的更多是知识，语言，文字逻辑方面的能力，懂得更加理性全面地去看待舞蹈。
像刚谈到的，我的舞者身份已经不再单纯，现在的我，仍然会把注意力放在身体上，在学习更加有耐心和爱心地对待自己的身体，也开始更多地去关注别人，帮助别人。我不再是三年前的我，我始终保持着变化和成长，我也不考虑将来，因为未来会远超我现在的想象。当然还是希望在不久后能够出国，接触不一样的文化，认识不同的人，我喜欢变化，留在相同的地方重复经历同样的事情，本能上面我是抗拒的。
For a dancer, the concept of youth or physical condition is really subjective and varies from person to person. I don’t think age should ever be used as a determining factor when evaluating a dancer. I know numerous older dancers who continue to do what they do well into their fifties and beyond. When I reflect upon my own body, I can see there are like, scars and stuff, as a result of my training and everything all these years. I do get the feeling that with each passing year, my body seems to wear a little, and I can’t solve all the problems using my body the way I did three years ago. What I’ve gained these years instead, were more like intellectual and linguistic abilities, developed a more rational and comprehensive perspective to the art of dance.
As mentioned earlier, my role is not just a dancer anymore. While I still prioritise my focus on my body, learning to treat it with more patience and love, I also started to devote more attention to others and in terms of offering assistance and advice when they need it. I am not the same person I once was three years ago, as I’m continuously shifting and growing, yet I do not fixate on the future as it holds possibilities beyond my tiny imagination. For sure yes, I would love to travel abroad in the foreseeable future, to encounter different cultures and individuals, I relish change, and instinctively I resist lingering in familiar surroundings and repeating the same things over and over again.
AW：在舞蹈这条职业道路上，你的性别身份有没有给你带来什么困扰或者帮助呢？
In the career path of dance, has your gender identity brought you any challenge or perhaps help?
KL：好像也没有。当你把这个问题看成一个问题时，它可能就真的变成一个问题了。但是如果你不将其视为问题，它也就不会对你产生太大的影响。我并没有觉得哪些事情必须得男性去做或者哪些事情只有女性才能完成。当然，生理结构上男性更强壮，女性更柔美，这可能会给处理某些事情上带来先天的优势，但是也并非所有时刻下都必须表现出力量或者单一展现柔美对吧。我们每个人特点都不一样。
现在的我可能已经没有处在一个对性别身份有过多纠结的阶段，取而代之的可能更多是一种脱离感。我对家的归属感并不那么强烈，随遇而安可能是对我现状比较恰当的一个描述，像小鸟短暂停留在树上，或是蒲公英的种子随风飘落在各地。我似乎不再那么迫切地渴望与别人产生连接，跟还在雷动天下那段时间不同，现在也不太在意别人对自己的认可。某种程度上来说很自由 — 我不会因为别人喜欢我而大喜，也不会因为别人不喜欢我而大悲。反面就是随之而来的孤独感。虽然独处的时间增多了，我也享受独处，但自己能给自己带来的变化其实很少，一段时间后必然会觉得无聊，总盼着谁能给我带来一些波澜。说来说去又回到了一开头谈的那个很拧巴的状态。
Not really if I’m honest. I guess I’ve never considered it as an issue so it kind of takes no toll on me. I don’t believe that certain tasks are intrinsically designated for men or that some can only be fulfilled by women. I mean, there’s no argument that, relatively, men often possess greater physical strength and women are known more for their grace and sensitivity, these attributes may provide advantages in some specific situations, but obviously it’s not always the case, I think it’s crucial that we all respect individuality.
Right now, I’m in a phase where I’m not too troubled by the questions of gender. Instead, I’m experiencing a greater sense of detachment. My sense of belonging to a specific place or home is not particularly strong anymore. You can probably describe it as flowing with the current, like a bird briefly resting on a tree or a dandelion seed gently landing with the wind. The urgency to form connections with others, which characterised a previous phase of my life at BeijingDance / LDTX2, has diminished, I am less inclined to actively seek validation or approval from others these days.
In a way, I feel extremely liberated — I don’t derive excessive joy from being liked by others, nor do I feel any sadness if I am not. On the flip side, this newfound freedom comes with a certain sense of solitude. Although I appreciate and enjoy spending time alone, I realise that self-directed changes are often rather limited, and after a while, I yearn for someone or something to bring back that sense of excitement. It’s just such a complex state of being that I’m in right now, like we initially discussed.
AW：二十多年跟舞蹈相处下来，你觉得她有没有教会你一些什么？
After 20 odd years, has dance taught you anything?
KL：一句话太难总结了。如果真要说一件事情，可能是吃苦。如何承受肉体上的苦，如何忍受生活或者是人生给你带来的痛。学习舞蹈本身就已经是一个吃苦的过程，不知不觉中也培养了我对人事物比较坚定的信念，很多事情终归是会过去的，就是要有付出才有收获。
另外一点我觉得舞蹈带给我的是变化性。跳舞究竟是什么，当你在动的时候，你已经在跳舞了。尽管我不再每天都身处工作室内跳舞，但哪怕只是一个抬手，嘴角的颤抖，所有动态都构成了舞蹈。随着岁月和经验的累积，我越发能感受到所有事情都不是一成不变的，任何人事物都是处在一个持续变化的状态。舞蹈教会了我如何保持开阔的心态去面对事情，不要用一成不变的观念去看待事情。无论是跳舞，做音乐，或者是文字工作，我们始终都处在一个变化内，变化才正正是常态。
It’s impossible to summarise really… If I must name one thing though, it’s probably the ability to endure hardships. How to withstand physical challenges and the pains that life or circumstances bring. If I’m honest, the process of learning dance itself is highly demanding, both physically and mentally, gradually I think it has shaped my unwavering belief in perseverance. All things eventually will pass, only through dedication can we reap rewards.
Coming to think of it, I think what dance has bestowed upon me is a sense of fluidity, or adaptability. I mean, how do you even define dancing, even in the simplest of gestures, the faintest smile, every motion — all these things constitute toward dancing. Although I may not dance in the studio every day any longer, the essence of dance permeates all aspects of my life. With time and experience, I’ve come to embrace the inherent fluidity of everything. Change is constant, and dance has taught me to approach life with an open mind, whether it’s the art of dance, creating music, or crafting written work, we are always in a state of transformation — a testament to the ever-changing nature of our very existence.
Epilogue 终章
作为这次访问的终章，距离我和可华上一次对话，将近三个月的时间后，中国大陆重新开放国门，也变相宣告疫情终于临近尾声。可华在此次的访谈中显得异常的雀跃，与上一次的谈话呈现出鲜明的对比。2023年三月初时，如愿以偿，她终于又一次来到了欧洲开始了她的旅途，而此时此刻，她正身处巴黎。
As the epilogue of our interview with Kehua Li (Lico) unfolds, nearly three months have passed since our last conversation. With the reopening of Mainland China’s borders, it appears as if the pandemic has finally reached its twilight. In this part of the conversation, Lico exuded an extraordinary sense of excitement, a vivid contrast to our previous discussion. In early March of 2023, as desired, she embarked on her journey once again, this time to Europe, at the very moment of our conversation, she found herself in the enchanting City of Light — Paris.
Axel Wang：Lico，在上一次谈话临近尾声时，我们谈到了关于舞蹈教会你的东西。你提到了一点是“改变”，当时你所说的跟佛教里“无常”的概念是相呼应的。阿喀朗·汗（Akram Khan）在最近的一次访问里也有提到关于“改变”，跟你的看法也很像。他说，改变是生命里唯一的常态，身体，爱，都是维持在一个持续的动态下，甚至包括死亡，我们的身体也在持续腐坏分解的状态。你现在会偶尔回头看一下之前的作品么？经过了年月的变迁，当你完全抽离开再一次重新审视往日作品的时候，你能感受到什么改变么？
Lico, when we were finishing our conversation last time, we spoke about what dance has taught you and one of the many things that you mentioned was ‘change’, and it corresponds with the Buddhism philosophy of anitya, which translates as impermanence in English. Akram Kham spoke about ‘change’ in a recent interview and it was similar to what you said. He said that change is the only constant in life, our bodies, love, and death, they are all constantly changing. Do you have a habit of revisiting your old works? As time passes and one becomes more detached from previous works, do you feel any change when you look at them again?
Kehua Li (Lico)：非常偶尔，我不是很常会翻过去的东西。我的变化性非常快，我不喜欢感受到自己停滞的状态。我们上一次谈话时我在北京，现在我来到了巴黎，前一天我还在哥德堡，之后一个星期准备去西班牙，柏林，这个持续变动的状态会给我带来很多思考。在这个过程里，你会遇到自己不熟悉的东西，发现自己的短处，通过跟世界各地的人的相处，和他人的一种良性比较，你才能知道自己的位置在哪。而不是像你在同一个地方，每天经历着同样的事情，在同一群人的关注之下，你看待自己的方式始终都会是一成不变的。就像活在一个泡泡里，这个泡泡就是你的全世界。跟两个月前相比，我对自己和对这个世界的认知又有了新的变化。
回到你的问题，其实反倒是很多身边和外界的人，他们会时常来提醒我的过去。但我并没有对过去有很强烈，想要抓住的执念，我更希望人们能看到现在的我，或者探讨当下或是未来的可能性。
On rare occasions maybe, I seldom dwell on the past. My nature is one of rapid change, as I find discomfort in the stagnation of self. The last time we spoke, I was in Beijing, and now I have arrived in Paris, just the day before, I was in Gothenburg, and in the following week, I will be preparing to visit Spain, Berlin — this constant, I don’t know, state of flux perhaps, provokes profound contemplation for me. In this process, you encounter unfamiliar territories, discover your own shortcomings, and through engaging with people from around the world, and through a benign comparison with others, you can ascertain your own position. On the other hand if you are stuck in the same place, experiencing the same events day after day, within the confines of a fixed group of people, where your perception of self is likely to remain unchanged. A bit like living in a bubble you know, where that bubble becomes your entire world. Comparing the present to two months ago, my understanding of self and the world has once again undergone new transformations.
Coming back to your question, it is actually the people around me who often remind me of the past but personally I do not hold a strong obsession or desire to grasp onto the past. Instead, I hope that people can see me as I am now and engage in dialogues about the possibilities of the present or the future.
AW：最后，我们来聊聊舞台吧。阿喀朗·汗在同一篇访问里说，经过了疫情，他很想念舞台，他说在舞台上是一种，自由落体的感觉。尽管经过了数不清的的排练，纵使已经在泳池练习了千百遍，一旦踏上舞台，仿如跳入了汪洋，大海比你强壮，你的周围一切都是不受控的。舞台对他来说，是存在和生命。你最近的工作更多转到了台后，你有想念舞台么？
Finally Lico, let’s talk about the stage. Mr. Khan spoke about this in the same interview that I just mentioned, that he seriously missed the stage as a result of the pandemic. He said that when he’s on stage it feels like free fall, even though you might have practised thousands of times beforehand, but once you step onto the stage it’s like jumping into the ocean, the ocean is way stronger than yourself, you possess zero control of your surroundings. The stage means everything to him, his existence, his life. What about you Lico, do you miss the stage, not only because of the pandemic but since a lot of what you do has moved behind the scene now?
KL：最近在北京刚结束的项目，是沈伟老师的一部舞剧《东坡》，我作为舞者和演员又一次回到了台前。我特别能理解阿喀朗先生的想法，当你在舞台上，作为一个舞者被人关注，欣赏，甚至被评价的时候，你会深切地感受到自己的价值。从始至终，我们的舞蹈生涯都是在这样一个状态下孕育而成的。
当我这次再次回归到舞者身份时，反而对舞蹈多了一层不同的理解。当你在编舞和当老师的时候，你给予的更多，你需要把自己的判断和价值传递给别人。但作为一名舞者，相反你要扮演的角色是需要倾听，相信和配合，并且无条件地去执行以及完成编舞者的想法，不能有太多自我对于美丑好坏，喜欢与否的判断。对我来说也花了一段时间去调整以及适应这个“新”身份，当回归舞者时我发现，舞者需要更多身体的给予，相反老师和编舞需要更多大脑的给予，在扮演不同的角色时，大脑的能量和身体的能量实际上是有不同的配比。
过去三年在国内，相比于现代舞幕后的工作，我参与了许多中国传统舞的舞剧，它更倾向于角色人物性、故事性、情感和情绪的叙述和表达，更符合中国传统的主流审美观和价值观吧。很多这些戏剧方面的元素，也从另一个角度训练了我在舞蹈中不单只运用身体表演。这又是另外一个变化不是吗，因为身份的矛盾性，当我翻过了一座山，再次面临现代舞的时候，我似乎又能看清更多。不同的环境、需求、社会体系下，评判标准也不同，同时也更能了解自己，知道自己身体内的成分是什么。
I recently participated in a project in Beijing, which just concluded. It was a theatre production called Poetic Dance: Dongpo3, directed by Shen Wei4 and once more, I found myself on the stage as both a dancer and actress. I could truly, truly relate to what Mr Khan said. When you step onto the stage as a dancer, you become the focal point of attention, admiration, and even criticism, it’s like you are being recognised. Our entire dance career has always been defined within this context.
This time round returning to a dancer role, it has sparked some kind of a fresh insight into the world of dance for me. Since being a choreographer or tutor, you must give so to speak, imparting your judgments and values to others. Yet, as a dancer, on the other hand the role reverses, it requires listening, absolute trust and cooperation, you must execute the choreographer’s vision without imposing your personal judgments of aesthetics or preferences. It took me some time to adjust and adapt to this ‘new’ role to be honest. As I resumed my position as a dancer, I realised that dancers need to channel a tremendous amount of physical energy whereas choreographers and instructors exert a significant amount of mental energy. It’s fascinating to witness as well as to experience this contrast.
Spending the past three years in China, I was involved in quite a number of dance productions showcasing traditional Chinese dance, leaning more towards character-driven narratives, emphasising storytelling and emotions, and aligning more with the taste of the masses should I say. Many of these elements in theatrical arts, they definitely expanded my horizons beyond just the physicality of a dance performance. That’s somewhat of another transformation isn’t it, because of this distinctive contrast existing in different roles, now my vision seemed clearer, under various environments, demands, or even social frameworks, the dynamics, the expectations or even evaluations are going to be different. Now I’m more aware of myself compared with three years ago I think.
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AW：在去巴黎之前，哥德堡有给你带来什么样的惊喜么？
Before you went to Paris, any surprises in Gothenburg?
KL：我在哥德堡呆了一周不到的时间，参与了哥德堡歌剧院舞团（Gothenburg Opera Dance Company）的一场舞蹈试镜，很荣幸也很幸运，得到了这次机会，能与导师和来自世界各地的舞者面对面地交流。在过去的三年间我人一直都在中国，感觉世界上别的⻆落发生了什么事情我浑然不知，也是通过这次试镜，我想更多地了解这个世界，了解不同生存环境下舞者们的想法。
我在试镜的时候身边的人都超级年轻！真的像是构筑了一道很美丽的风景线，他们每个人都充满了活力，毫不犹豫地投入到每个舞蹈动作中。我今年也马上30岁了，在跳舞时，我会思考每一个动作，会希望每一个细节呈现出来都是完美的，跟他们有一个很强烈的反差。反差不单止是我们年龄上的差异，还体现在各种文化背景交织和碰撞下所产生的对立面，实在是太迷人了。
So I was in Gothenburg for less than a week, and I just had an amazing audition for the Gothenburg Opera Dance Company5. I feel so honoured and lucky to have had the opportunity to meet and interact with mentors and dancers from all around the world. You know, for the past three years, I had to stand still in China, and I felt like I’ve been completely out of touch with what’s happening in the rest of the world. The audition did a lot of good I think, I wanted to find out more about the world, and understand the perspectives of all these dancers in diverse environments.
Let me tell you, during the audition, everyone around me was so incredibly young! They created this vibrant and dynamic atmosphere, fully immersing themselves in every dance movement. Turning 30 this year, I tend to approach my movements with a slightly different mindset I think, I hope to strive for perfection in every detail. It’s quite a contrast to these younger dancers, it wasn’t just about age, but also the collision and fusion of different cultural backgrounds. It’s truly fascinating.
AW：你刚才提到了接下来也准备去柏林，有计划要和近藤基弥先生碰面嘛？
You planning to meet Motoya Kondo-san6 in Berlin later on?
KL：有的，实际上这次我没有像三年前出游时做具体的安排。这也是疫情带给我的影响之一吧，我之前会制定非常精确的计划，我知道接下来要去哪里，要做什么以及要和谁见面。这三年过后，我发现自己在逐渐适应疫情对我个人带来的变化，我开始改掉了提前详细计划的习惯。因为计划始终都会被打乱，当一个原本完美的计划瓦解成虚无的不安感时，感觉会更糟糕。我现在开始学会欣然接受那些意外和惊喜。当然我还是会制定短期的计划和设定未来的大方向，但更主要的还是抱着对未来和未知的畅想，用开放的心态去迎接无限的可能性。未来是善变的，我很满足于活在当下。也因为这样，我非常感激近藤先生能帮我把这次旅行中很多的事情都安排好了！
Yes of course! I didn’t make specific plans this time like I did three years ago. In the past, I always planned, I knew exactly what I was going to do, meeting up with whom and where. It’s probably one of the after-effects that the pandemic has had on me. Truth is, regardless of how meticulous my plan is, it will always get disrupted, it’s more important for me at this stage to embrace the unexpected, the possibilities, and the delightful surprises that come my way. I mean, obviously there’s still some sort of a plan, more like an overall direction, I’m now learning to adapt to spontaneity because the future is ever-changing, and we’ll never know, carpe diem right? That’s why I am incredibly grateful to Kondo-san for helping me organise many aspects of this trip!
AW：回想起当时在柏林的日子，我也很想念近藤先生，一直都想采访他来着，或许你可以帮忙说服他 （笑）。
I miss my days with Kondo-san in Berlin honestly, I’ve always wanted to conduct an interview with the man, perhaps you can help persuade him (laughs).
KL：没有问题！
Absolutely!
1. TAO Dance Theater (陶身体剧场) is founded by choreographer Tao Ye (陶冶) in 2008, a cutting-edge contemporary dance company based in China. Known for its minimalist, experimental approach and visually stunning performances.
2. BeijingDance / LDTX (雷动天下现代舞团) is a prominent dance company based in Beijing founded in 2005 by Willy Tsao and Hanzhong Li. Dynamic and versatile, the company combines elements of traditional Chinese culture with innovative choreography and diverse artistic collaborations. The performances are often powerful and thought-provoking, exploring social, cultural, and human experiences.
3. Poetic Dance: Dongpo《东坡》portrays the life experience of Su Shi (苏轼), also known as Su Dongpo (苏东坡) of the Song Dynasty. Known for his poetry, calligraphy, painting and so on, he’s one of the most celebrated cultural icons in China. The production premiered at the National Centre for the Performing Arts in Beijing early 2023.
4. Shen Wei (沈伟) is a Chinese-American choreographer and artist based in New York City, renowned for his innovative and interdisciplinary approach to performance. He combines various artistic mediums such as dance, painting, sound, sculpture, theatre, and video to create original works that reflect a unique fusion of Asian and Western influences.
5. The Gothenburg Opera Dance Company is a renowned contemporary dance company based in Gothenburg, Sweden. Known for their artistic excellence and innovative performances, the company showcases a diverse repertoire that encompasses both classical and contemporary dance styles.
6. Motoya Kondo (近藤基弥) was born in Nagoya, Japan, he is a choreographer, dancer, and co-founder of Motimaru Dance Company. He studied the dance of butoh, one form of traditional Japanese dancing with Yoshito Ohno (大野一雄) and has conducted fieldwork research on local and traditional dances in India, Nepal, and Bali. With performances and teaching engagements across over 40 cities in Europe, Asia, and Australia, Kondo bridges contemporary art practices with Eastern contemplative traditions, influenced by Tibetan wisdom.
The original interview was conducted in Mandarin Chinese by Axel Wang on 17 December 2022, the epilogue was conducted on 8 March 2023 mostly in Mandarin Chinese and partially in English. The above conversation has been condensed, edited and translated accordingly. The title of the chapter is in reference to the book written by Richard Shusterman, published in 2008.
Introduction, Editor & Design: Axel Wang
Photography: All images are courtesy of Kehua Li (Lico)
Special Thanks: Harry Wang